Sharing my concerns

Today I got an opportunity to share some heartfelt things with some who engaged me in discussion. A few people asked me about my blog, and I was a little reticent in sharing such personal feelings and heartbreaks with people, feeling a little vulnerable to re-opening old, but tender wounds. So, I’ve updated a famous post of mine, laying out my disagreements in the only format I have ever found I could express my thoughts, since the same person I wrote about and his teachings, asked my husband to ask me to take down my blog, “because it’s harmful”. Maybe that is the one reason why I should keep it up, because this person is unwilling to receive careful critique of his teachings, which he presents as “biblical” teachings. He presents it as a model for living scripturally.

So, judge for yourselves. My comments are ALWAYS open, and I am willing to dialogue, because I know Whom I have believed and trust Him to lead me into Truth.

Here’s the link:
Exclusivity, Condescension, Preferential Teachings and Why I Disagree Strongly With These Teachings

And another post describing more concerns: “Homeschool Nation: Homier Than Thou” Click here to read.

Here is the audio to the sermon where Gregg Harris recommends The Return of the Daughters to his congregation. It is a contradictory and nonsensical, and a careless handling of the scriptures video by the Botkin sisters, affiliated with Vision Forum Click here to listen.

Mr. Harris talks about a model household, and toasters, and modern appliances: click here to read and listen.

And, Hey, Chris! 🙂 I did respond to your comment after you presented the NGJ article to me. Click on over to this comment.
Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated

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4 Responses to “Sharing my concerns”

  1. thatmom Says:

    Kate, thanks for the “re-runs.” I really appreciate your candor and desire to minister to others by exposing these teachings. I am still struggling to grasp what Harris is trying to say about men working for themselves and hiring servants. It all sounds like more of the same old same old hierarchy stuff. This is being taught everywhere. I recently watch Monstrous Regiment of Women again and the caste system is taught as the “biblical” way. And recently Geoff Botkin talked about training his daughters when they are little girls how to run households of servants. What world do these people live in?

    Hang in there….the hierarchy of homeschooling “leadership” is being questioned and they don’t like it. The Lord is blessing your efforts. {{{{}}}}

  2. Kathleen Says:

    Karen,
    You’re such an encouragement to me. I’m going through a lot of praying and trying to deal with these teachings that have been more and more emphasized at hofcc.

    I know that Harris’ main church and the other churches in his group of hofcc churches have been preaching in Ephesians, a book pivotal in my understanding of my relationship with Jesus. I want to say upfront that the Lord has been teaching me to disagree and know His Truth, but to be willing to be vulnerable to their response to my understanding and freedom, which usually means that we’ll disagree and people will talk. My husband and kids still attend, but I haven’t for over a year. I went on Easter/Resurrection Day with my family because I was sad to be alone on such a wonderful celebration. Of course, the preacher had to mention at the end of the service that the husbands are to serve their families communion, because of the “headship” teaching. It’s like it’s their agenda, and they have to utilize every opportunity to hammer it in.

    My husband has come to some of the same convictions as I have, because of all that I’ve shared with him in my learning, the work of God, and his own personal investigation of the Scriptures. He’s blessed me with various insights that would point more to the “one-anothering”, too. This last Sunday, I think he is really starting to see how they are really promoting the hierarchy, authority agenda when the young man preached his sermon on Eph. 5:21.

    All the different hofcc preachers in the various locations here teach from the passage of Scripture each week and lately it’s been Eph. 5, this last Sunday it was 5:21. A great verse to indicate the “one-another’s” in Scripture. If you want to see what I’m talking about or even listen to a sermon to hear for yourself, go to www[dot]hofcc.org and listen to the audio link for the church “Mt. Hood”, which is where my family has been attending. My kids have friends there (whose world view is slowly starting to surface and come into these teachings, as they’ve gotten older) and they have grown up together. For the most part, they just have fun together, so I wouldn’t tear them away from them. My husband hasn’t really developed any deep male friends, though some are more engaging than others.

    When I showed up on Sunday, many women, elder’s wives, hugged me and I don’t know if they were thinking I was some prodigal — because nothing could be further from the truth — and it was a tad awkward, and especially so when one woman I had only briefly met once in the past year confronted me for responding to an email she sent me, trying to recruit me into her Kangen water business, that’s circulating among the hofcc membership, which she called a ministry. She was visibly upset that I shared some links in my email that would shed a different perspective on the MLM.

    So, about the Ephesians 5:21 sermon this past weekend:
    It was totally manipulated by a young and bright man, who happened to grow up in an IBLP home (very nice family). But all the preachers in the family of churches preached the same theme: authority, and submitting to it. This young man and most likely the other men preaching, according to the titles of their sermons, preached on authority structure they saw in that passage.

    The young man began by prefacing that there were two views out there on the passage, and he chose to feature on the overhead F.F. Bruce’s commentary on the word “submit” and the context (one that I found more closely matched my own understanding of the passage), and Wayne Grudem’s commentary that the preacher pulled from off of the CBMW website. I was trying to find the commentary in the Grudem’s Systematic Theology book that every household at hofcc is encouraged to purchase to train up their family in correct doctrine. I do not find his teachings all together trustworthy and many others have discussed his mishandling of the passages on the eternal subordination of the Son, or something like that, and his interpretation of the term “ezer” in the Bible to be completely agenda-driven.

    Wayne Grudem’s commentary did VIOLENCE to the Eph. 5:21 passage, and he stated that submit always has something to do with authority, blah, blah, blah. So the young man chose Grudem, and continued to preach the entire sermon on authority. I got up and walked into the other room (it’s a public elementary school they hold services in), got some coffee and chatted with my daughter who was working on homework 🙂

    These people do not take the passages in context. In the same chapter, verses 23-33, it’s talking about the Body of Christ, and uses the husband wife oneness as an analogy, then the husband’s own flesh teaching to emphasize the teaching on Christ’s Body, his church. Colossians teaches the same type of thing.

    After the service, my husband and PRAISE God, another deacon discussed the sermon with the young man. My husband and the deacon disagreed with his choice in the commentator he chose, and they told him they would have gone with F.F. Bruce’s comment on vs. 21. So, my husband is taking an unpopular stand, and I’m so glad he spoke up. I was feeling like some “wwf” with my convictions around some of these really dedicated people.

    Next week they’re teaching on Ephesians 5:22 and more. I don’t know if I should be there to challenge them (graciously!) or not. One of the “in’s” I have is that before the sermon last Sunday, a man had a testimony and encouraged us all to begin to speak the Truth to each other. He challenged the congregation to begin speaking the Truth, and I don’t know what he meant but I took that as a confirmation from the Holy Spirit to just start talking truth about what I believe to these people (making myself vulnerable because of their highly CBMW, Harris, Gothard and other influences in their lives). God has especially laid it on my heart to not be confrontative, but compassionate and patient, and not easily offended. I don’t know that I can do this, but I’m going to try.

    I also don’t know where this is going to lead me. Whether I continue to go or not is in the Lord’s hands. I’m being patient as to where our family is going, since I’m actually “submitting” to my husband in that I’m not stepping out yet, seeking another church. My church has been in the sanctuary of my own home, in the presence of my Lord, when the tears have flowed in grief and loneliness, and His Word becomes illuminated in my heart, and I’ve sung and danced with joy before him with a worship song. Those times have been precious treasures.

    I am thinking about posting a very, very disturbing (to me) excerpt out of hofcc’s Visitor’s Booklet on the “gender roles” expected in the church and the use of the open mic during the service. It is akin to Jen Epstein’s church (Doug Phillips’) and the women being silent in the church. I may put it up in a blog post to have people discuss it, since a few of the folks from the hofcc church asked me about my blog. And many of the members from Gregg Harris’ church were visiting the Mt. Hood church where I was at this weekend, because they all came to hear the young man preach. Some asked me about my blog and perhaps will see some of the reasons why our family left their congregation over a year ago, since I think only one person called us, besides the Harris’ once or twice, one time to recruit my son for their Rebelution conference to volunteer. The Harris’ live down the street from us.

  3. Kathleen Says:

    The Visitor’s Booklet has a section that reads:

    Using Our “Open Microphone” to Move In The Gifts Of The Spirit

    “Each one has a song, a teaching, a revelation …” (1 Cor.14:26). During our worship the Holy Spirit prompts believers to build up one another by means of spiritual gifts. This “body ministry” is welcomed, provided it is offered in keeping with the guidelines laid down by Paul in 1 Cor. 14:12-19 & 26-35. So, this is how it works.

    All of our men, ages 13+, are free to speak without prior “screening” by others. This is because, “the head of every man is Christ,” (1 Cor. 11:2-7). However, all that is said will be evaluated by the Elders and other men of the church as to its faithfulness to the Bible. Paul does not permit women to participate audibly [their emphasis, not mine] in the evaluation process (see 1Cor. 14:31-35). On the other hand, women may move in the spiritual gifts. Phillip had four daughters who prophesied. (Acts 21:9) But, because “the head of a wife is her husband” (1Cor. 11:2-7) a wife or daughter must ask her own husband or father for his [their emphasis, not mine] oversight before going to the “open mike.” [sp] Our Elders will cover for those whose husband or father is not present. Time may not permit everyone to share. Allow the Worship Leaders to pace the flow of this ministry, and defer to one another.”

    Stunning.

  4. Bill Bartmann Says:

    Cool site, love the info.

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