“The combination of MLM and miracle health device makes it virtually 100% likely to be a scam.”

[Title quote taken from Malor, here]

I was going to do some posts that are near and dear to my heart right now, but decided that exposing a scam before people get caught up in it would be more important.

Someone urged our family to join a “seminar” that will explain the benefits of drinking “Kangen” water, or, simply ionized water. All for the easy recession pricing of — are you ready? — thousands of dollars per unit! I had to investigate the information myself because, of course these local resellers don’t want to scare you away before you’ll agree to coming to their home for a sales pitch.

This is no ORDINARY drinking water, they claim. The MLM (“Multi-Level Marketing” scheme, AKA Pyramid scheme) “distributors” want you to know it can possibly cure cancer, treat diabetes. A woman of a local congregation claimed to have gone off her Chemo to opt for this water treatment. One DREADFUL testimony I found was of an 11 year old boy with INSULIN DEPENDENT DIABETES who went off his insulin because he claimed it made him feel better. What is wrong with the parents? [The people who posted that testimony took it down after I linked to it! So I’ll post **another of their own claims.] I’ll bet, he was feeling better! Ketoacidocis builds up in a diabetic’s body after going without insulin, and you feel like you’re going to die of dehydration, and quite likely, a diabetic WILL if not treated with insulin immediately. I know. I felt I needed to drink water until it came out my ears. This horrid testimony was found on — you guessed it — a Kangen top upline MLM sales distributor’s website.

Criminal.

**“…My father’s blood pressure went down. His
blood sugar normalized and he did not need
insulin shots anymore after three weeks of
drinking the Kangen Water. The same thing with
my mom. They also lost weight. So they believe
in alkaline water..” -[anonymous], Bensenville, Illinois
“Our 8 month old newborn has had Eczema since
birth and we started spraying the 2.5 ph Kangen
water on his body rashes and within 2 weeks we
noticed it was clearing up. We were truly amazed
and could not believe that water could do this.”
-Randy & Shannon Tran, Rockville, MD
— found here: www [dot] kangenworldteam [dot] com/2009/05/06/acid-alkaline-balancing-for-better-health/

**Another outlandish and dangerously deceptive claim:
2. Rapid Reduction in Blood Sugar Level in Diabetes Patients
It is observed that about 80% of diabetes patients who started intake of Kangen water showed lower blood sugar levels within 2 weeks.
3. Rapid healing of Gangrene of the Lower Limbs, due to Diabetes
At Kyowa hospital in Kobe, Japan, at least 2 diabetics with lower limbs gangrene, who had not shown signs of recovery despite months of pharmaceutical treatment, saved their limbs within a month after they turned to drinking of Kangen water™ and soaking in strong oxidized water.
— found here: www [dot] kangenworldteam [dot] com/2007/10/25/faqs-about-kangenwater/

See? They have to remove the claims about the young 11 year old boy and going off of his insulin because of this Kangen “miracle” water, since it’s claims are dangerous and can lead people to think that this water has special qualities that would make them stop using life-saving treatments. They don’t want to be caught in their deceptions.

What Would Jesus Drink?

Okay, so I have a problem with the “miracle” unit. Not as much as I have a problem with the people trying to make nice, big commissions off of people in their congregations. Those whose congregants look up to their “biblical”-living advice! I did some web searches on this scam and found even one of the leading women in a local church-that-shall-go-unnamed is selling or advocating this unit to others in her local church. It’s everywhere among these folks. I have even found families who are supposedly in need of food from the same gleaning organization I volunteer at, who are flushing their money down into this money drain investment. I’m talking a mortgage payment or two or more, depending on the unit.

Oh, and the family either selling or advocating working for this Japanese company with the miracle water device? (I can only find this in the cached collection) Many of these same ones who say you should work in your own family business. This is a multimillion dollar overseas business MLM. How does that jive with them not being “slaves” to someone’s else’s business, hmmm?

“The combination of MLM and miracle health device makes it virtually 100% likely to be a scam.”Malor

What’s Kangen Water?

Basic, scientific facts about water.

Would Jesus hand you a cup of cold water and try to get you to purchase a water machine, to make a buck off of you? Have mercy, no.

“On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. “Whoever believes in me, as* the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” — John 7:37-39

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63 Responses to ““The combination of MLM and miracle health device makes it virtually 100% likely to be a scam.””

  1. derrickjones19 Says:

    Thanks for the heads-up Kate…

  2. Kathleen Says:

    You are very welcome.

  3. Kathleen Says:

    What Dr. Andrew Weil, a well-known doctor, has to say about these water ionization units that claim to balance pH levels:

    http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA98873/Does-Alkaline-Water-Promote-Health.html

    “Home water ionizers, which I’ve seen offered for sale on the internet, are just the latest twist in the ongoing effort to promote the notion that alkaline water is somehow protective of your health. The underlying idea is that you can prevent disease by balancing your body’s pH. Promoters claim that alkaline water is energizing, hydrates the body more effectively than regular water, improves the taste of food when used in cooking, promotes “regularity,” helps the body absorb nutrients more effectively, and on and on. I’ve even seen claims that it can cure everything from obesity and high blood pressure to breast cancer. None of these claims are true. Furthermore, your body needs absolutely no help in adjusting its pH. Normally, the pH of blood and most body fluids is near seven, which is close to neutral. This is under very tight biological control because all of the chemical reactions that maintain life depend on it. Unless you have serious respiratory or kidney problems, body pH will remain in balance no matter what you eat or drink. As for water, you should consider the fact that alkaline water is common throughout the western states but to my knowledge it has not protected anyone from the diseases and disorders that occur elsewhere in the U.S.

    The health claims for water ionizers and for alkaline water are bogus. Save your money.”

  4. Kathleen Says:

    I found this TOTALLY by accident. I plugged in the search terms ” “Kangen”, sell to church, MLM ” and this blog post was one of the search entries. I am totally shocked that the most influential of all women at that church would be trying to sell this $4,000 machine to her fellow congregants. Up until this morning, I didn’t realize she was a key player in this. This is a DOWNLINE marketing scheme.

    Harris’ and some key influential “alternative” health/nutrition promoters, Barry and Lauri, (who all say such bad things about legitimate food industries) introduced this Enagic “Kangen” MLM scheme to the congregants at their church. SEE POINT #22 BELOW:

    http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:3LPmEoFTx9MJ:theh2ohouse.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html+%22Kangen%22,+sell+to+church,+MLM&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=firefox-a

    It says the blog post does not exist with her comment on it but here it is:

    http://theh2ohouse.blogspot.com/2009/02/collective-from-portland-area.html

    When I copied the blog address to place into a doc file, the whole thing came up when I pasted it. Funny! But very revealing to me! I’ve changed most of the last names of the “testimonial” people, only leaving the main promoters/distributors name’s left intact, because they are scamming their friends, even if it is out of ignorance. It’s still motivated by selfishness. My dear friend brought up the point, “why don’t these people just buy one unit and hand out the water to hurting people for free?” Well, they probably have to make themselves feel better about their insanely huge investment, so they recruit others in their downline, to get a bonus.

    Here’s the whole blog post and testimonial of Sono Harris and her sphere of contacts:

    Collective from Portland Area

    1) Sono Harris:
    Gave water to a Japanese boy named Toyo at New Seasons who was suffering with eczema. He called after just a couple of days to say that his skin was softer. (family owned cheaper machine for two years – no improvement).

    Alex, Sarah, Isaac and Bret Harris suffer with eczema. They followed strict dietary restrictions, including no grains and sugars; saw multiple good natural doctors, did cleanses, had food sensitivity tests done, worked on multiple levels trying to eliminate eczema; Sarah in particular, but all of them to some degree suffered adrenal fatigue, inability to sleep at night, exhaustion, unable to function during the day.

    The water is finally making a difference and their skin eczema is improving. Sarah has a lot more energy and is able to participate in activities she had formally given up.

    Sarah’s hand was inflamed from a cat scratch – used 2.5 water – swelling eliminated immediately.

    2) Roxanne B. suffered with gout in her foot. After one week on the water, her gout pain was gone.

    3) Family with anger issues, after two weeks on the water they had the first week of their married life with no yelling in their household.

    4) P. family all suffer with asthma. After one month Mom P. can breathe in the mornings (formally was unable to) and the girls who also suffer with asthma are improving also.

    5) Carrie T. had lower abdominal pain following last childbirth and some minor back pain. One week on the water and pain was gone. When she runs out of water, her pain returns. Also noted that she has always had dry lips, no amount of chapstick would help. Now lips no longer dry and cracked. She says her husband commented that her face looks younger (more hydrated and the skin is plump and soft).

    Gave 2.5 water to mother with skin issue on hand (bumps or eczema – immediate improvement).

    6) Y.: Steve noticed swelling in his wife’s legs reduced when drinking the water, returned when ran out of water, reduced again on the water. She is wheelchair bound and unable to do a lot of things for herself. Since drinking Kangen Water her energy level seems to be slowly improving, she is able to do things for herself that she was formally unable to do. Steve is feeling good and lost 5lb (he had been losing weight but had plateau-ed) after 1 week on the water.

    7) Carrie D.: noticed situation that should have caused anxiety did not.

    8) Tauscher family: Barry had minor lower back pain. Gone. Barry started to get the flu, achy legs, sensitive back skin, took vitamin C and Echinacea with Kangen Water – flue gone 2 hours later. Rebekah had minor acne (12 years old): gone. Joseph toe infection – improving. Lauri: 1 diarrhea, yellow stool for three days (liver dumping bile), PH increased from below 5.5 to 6.4. I got up in the middle of the night every night since I was pregnant with my first child to go to the bathroom, after one week drinking Kangen water I no longer get up in the middle of the night to urinate. Lauri started to get a sore throat – gargled with 2.5 acid water, sore throat gone.

    9) Annabelle: Had a cough and says she does not cough when drinking the water.

    10) Mario: boy at church having an asthma attack – one glass of water stopped the attack.

    11) Lady with cancer, unable to urinate for months – 1 glass of water sent her to the bathroom. Two weeks on water and says she is able to walk well enough to go shopping and do housework, which she was unable to do before drinking the water (was using wheelchair). Judy has reported that she had pain in her hands and arms and multiple other parts of her body and it is all gone. She is very happy.

    12) 1 lady with pneumonia, on antibiotics, says always causes her joint pain – no pain. (friend of Liz Palmer)

    13) 1 lady with bumps on chest, lump in breast – bumps reduced, lump reduced (two weeks on water).

    14) 1 man with bone cancer – marked improvement in mental and physical performance.

    15) Sandra H.: Has arthritis in both hands, little fingers crooked. Called the first night sick in bed from a detox headache from drinking the water. Two days on water and right hand little finger had burning sensation and then straightened out and arthritis pain gone (left hand still crooked and arthritic).

    16) Tom T.: first night on Kangen Water slept 8 hours (usually only sleeps 5 hours). Drank half bottle wine – would usually feel effects in morning – headache. Drank Kangen water before bed – no headache or other effects in morning. Had swelling in little finger left hand – affecting ability to perform chores – seems to be reducing. Noticing improvement in overall attitude and motivation.

    17) Terria C. daughter gets up 5-6 times nightly to urinate, now on Kangen Water no longer gets up in middle of night to urinate.

    18) Kathryn S., ND: What I noticed was my hip pain eased up a bit and Marlon’s stomach ache went away.

    19) Roxanne B.: We’ve been feeling better & better each day & we are now sharing water with several friends. My good friend, Linda, had terrible leg cramps & heartburn that would wake her up EVERY night. She’s so happy to report that it’s all gone!

    20) Several folks commented on softer skin, not dry and cracked.

    21) Cheryl M.: Noticed skin is not dry and cracked and collapsed. No matter how much lotion used, never helped. Now soft and plump (hydrated) looking (friends had not seen for a few weeks noticed immediately her change in her face – looks younger).
    When started getting water could hardly carry one plastic gallon of water up stairs to apartment. Now carrying two glass gallon jars of water up stairs. Walking more easily, farther and standing longer. Lost significant weight (20-30lb at least). Her hands were all crippled and knotty with arthritis, they are drastically improved. Lumps and bumps on hands and arms have reduced or disappeared.

    22) Daisy E., mad as a hornet. Came to Pamela Lance Kangen Water presentation.

    Wrote us (Barry and Lauri) an email expressing gratitude for introducing the concept of Kangen Water, but expressing guilt at having bought a cheaper machine from Life Ionizer because financially it made more sense to them. She expressed the opinion that the Enagic Machine is priced twice as high as Life Ionizer ($4,000 vs. $2,000) because of the MLM type compensation plan Enagic offers for referral sales.

    Daisy’s daughter, Robin has had a lump on her calf for a few years. Drinking water from our Enagic Kangen Water machine the lump was reducing. When Robin began drinking water from her parent’s new Life Ionizer machine, the lump began to return. Robin came and got more Enagic Kangen water and the lump is reducing once again.

    Daisy said that she had acted in haste and made a decision based strictly on economics and due to previous uncomfortable experiences with MLM. When she saw the work that I had done showing that the Enagic markup is significantly less than the markup on the cheap machines, and that her Life Ionizer was obviously unable to produce the results that our Enagic Machine is, she decided to return her Life Ionizer.

    Daisy contacted the company from whom she bought the Life Ionizer machine, and they refused to refund her money (even though it is well within the 30 day return policy) because she has disposed of the original packing. She was told that even if she returned it in a gold plated solid steel container they would not take it back without the original packaging. The Life Ionizer representative then asked her why she wanted to return the machine. When she told him, he heaped abuse upon Enagic and was “ungentlemanly”. When she persisted in her request to return her machine, he became “nasty”. Daisy was disgusted with the way she was treated.

    Update: Robin’s lump is gone

    23) Martha Grace milks cows every day. She is a young woman, but her hands were cracked and dry with horrible looking black lines etched into the “palm” of her fingers. Two weeks on Kangen Water and her hands are no longer dry and cracked and the black etchings are gone.

    24) Aretha M.: Joint pain reduced.

    25) Rod P.: More mental energy (suffers from chronic fatigue). Began Thursday, May 22, 2008
    1. More mental energy and clarity
    2. Improved memory retention and access to memory
    3. Deeper sleep and more rested upon waking
    4. Increased energy and stamina
    5. Better sense of well being and **improved sense of humor [my note: what kind of ridiculous claim is this?!?]
    6. Increased social ability and willingness to communicate
    7. Increased sense of confidence
    8. Improved bowel movements and regularity
    9. Sense of increased physical strength and coordination as related to golf game
    10. Increased calmness in stressful situations

    26) Rhonda T.
    – less anxiety for herself
    – had heartburn one night as going to bed (from indulging), got up and had one glass of week old Kangen water and heartburn was gone.
    – Friend Dan was suffering from hypertension, gone after two days on Kangen water.
    – Friend Gabe with Lyme’s disease had pain in his hand like arthritis. Pain significantly reduced in the two days he was drinking Kangen water. Gabe did not believe it was the water, so quit drinking the water, pain returned. He began drinking Kangen Water again, pain went away. He did not believe it was the water, so quit drinking the water again, the pain returned. He began drinking the Kangen Water again and the pain went away. He is convinced.

    27) Another man with asthma drinking the Kangen water for a week said that he feels much better and will continue drinking the Kangen water. He has now drastically reduced his asthma medication.
    28) John G. said his carpal tunnel, lower back and multiple joints pain is all gone. His wife seems to be better and is on a more even keel. John treated a patch of poison oak with the 2.5 acid water and left another patch untreated. The treated patch healed noticeably faster. He just completed a 53 mile bicycle marathon and said he was not even tired.
    29) Fred’s daughter was in an automobile accident 25 years ago, coma for a year, suffered severe brain damage, unable to walk. Fred showed his daughter’s neurologist info about Kangen water and she said “definitely use the Kangen Water”.. At about the same time she started the Kangen Water, Fred’s daughter was also put on a new medication. She is doing better all around and is near able to walk on her own.

    30) Marius’s wife Rodica is suffering from MS. She was unable to walk. Rodica has implemented a number of dietary improvements to her lifestyle to combat the MS. A month or so ago they added the Kangen Water to her regimen. She walked (with assistance) into our kitchen yesterday.

    31) A woman had nodules (due to allergies) at the back of her throat. The doctor was monitoring the situation. As they showed no signs of going away, he promised to perform surgery to remove them in July 2008. She drank Kangen Water 9.5 for a day or two and the nodules went away.

    32) Richard S. had a cough that was just getting worse and worse – after starting on the water, the cough is gone and his skin is softer.

    33) Melissa’s Mom got an Enagic Kangen Water machine and began taking water to her friend Stormy. Stormy got nauseous drinking Kangen Water 8.5, but wanted to continue getting water because in 1.5 days her allergies went away (she was using a box of Kleenex every two hours). One day Melissa’s Mom had not taken Stormy her water yet and Stormy came to get water because she had run out of water and was unable to breathe. An hour after getting the kangen water she was able to breathe again.

    34) Melissa’s mom has bone spurs, since she has been drinking the water she seems to move more easily.

    35) Saxon has asthma, but since drinking Kangen water he can breathe and has reduced his medication by over 75%.

    36) Christy has been unable to stand up without assistance after sitting leaned forward. Then once up has difficulty walking (problem seems to be in her hips). Three days on Kangen water and her hips are fine (no problem standing up or walking after sitting leaned forward).

    37) Sharon had long term shoulder pain, gone after drinking Kangen water for a few weeks.

    38) Rachel. Long term foot fungus, gone from drinking Kangen Water.

    39) Thuy has suffered with fibromyalgia. After two weeks on the water her pain is drastically reduced, the sores in her mouth are gone, her migraine headaches are gone.

    40) Rebecca’s mother used a cane for assistance in walking. She is now able to walk energetically without her cane, her knee and leg pain is gone. She had carpul tunnel surgery and said she came immediately out of the anesthesia (whereas she usually takes hours) and she felt fine and hungry and ready to go home.

    41) Helen with diabetes reduced her blood sugar level from 300 to 120 in less than a week drinking the water. She also lost 15 lb. She is now completely off of her diabetes medications. *** [my note: THIS is where I start to really question the validity of the seller’s claims, making very dangerous precedents for others to follow]

    42) Kristi’s mother reduced her blood sugar level from 180 to 100 after one week on the Kangen Water.

    43) Dave R. had surgery to remove nodules in his throat several months ago. Recently the nodules returned and his voice was gone. He dreaded another surgery. He drank the Kangen water and in a few days the nodules were gone.

    44) Patty had ovarian cancer. She was on chemo for 6 months, her cancer count numbers continued to rise. Her oncologist took her off chemo and sent her home on hospice to die. When Patty called Diane to let her know she was dying, she could barely speak in a whisper. Another friend took her Kangen Water and two weeks later she called Diane in a normal tone of voice. After six weeks on Kangen Water Patty was in complete remission and feeling great. [my note: really, really needs to have some more explanation than this. MLM talk is filled with illogical conclusions).

    45) From Roxanne: my sister has finally started drinking enough water that she’s seeing some results! she now has more energy, which encouraged her to start walking & eating better, and she’s lost weight too!

    46) from Stephanie: My friend Karen has had some healing experiences! She is up to the 9.0 and notices that her fibromyalgia pain level is much lower and that her urinary tract problem, (a tendency to urinate very little in a trickle, but feels like she has to go all the time and it hurts whenever she does pee,) has gone away completely. It came back when she ran out of the 9.0 and had to revert to 8.5 (her dog’s bottle of water) for a short period of time. She said that when she pees now, it is much more of a flow and no pain whatsoever, as long as she is able to use the 9.0. It will be interesting to see what she can do with the 9.5! Just wanted to tell you.

    47) Julie had a bone infection in her jaw that was excruciating. She was on Vicaden. One day drinking Kangen Water and she no longer needed the Vicaden.

    48) Lars’s back pain reduced some when drinking ¾ gallon/day of Kangen water. His back pain was GONE when he drank 1.5 gallons/day of Kangen Water for a week.

    49) Yana’s father’s blood sugar levels are lower than they ever have been drinking the Kangen Water, and his hip pain that prevented him from being able to walk very far is gone too. After the first evening of drinking Kangen Water, he was able to feel his hands the next morning for the first time in years.

    50) Fortunately the water has been helping me A LOT. I actually woke up at 6:15 am this morning and felt like getting up. That hasn’t happened for years. I guess my digestive tract could only be fixed by this water. I have tried so many other things over the years. Definitely fermentation/yeast has gone out this past week since drinking the water. My mind is clearer and I have more consistent energy. Food digests without making me so tired.
    The other lady had only been drinking the water for two to three days. She said she had woke up every night for a month with her carpel tunnel pain. The last two nights she did not wake up. I’ll need to get an update since she’s had more water now.
    Oh, yes, she said her usually constipated husband has been going to the bathroom more. 🙂
    Thank you again for all your help! Love, Garnet

    51) Roy Burkett called and said that his wife had gone to CA where her pain had returned and upon coming back (and resuming our water) the pain once again subsided.
    Continue Reading Collective from Portland Area
    Posted by King Kangen at 2/19/2009

    • Roy Burkett Says:

      you said:
      “My dear friend brought up the point, “why don’t these people just buy one unit and hand out the water to hurting people for free?” Well, they probably have to make themselves feel better about their insanely huge investment”
      I agree with your dear friend.
      So do the Tauschers. They freely give water away – about a hundred gallons per day.
      As a matter of fact, there are 6 machines in the lobby at Enagic offices in the LA area where people line up daily to get free water. They give away THOUSANDS of gallons each day.
      And people pick up water at my home for free, too.
      (Perhaps doing your research before making disparaging remarks would be a good idea.)
      Most of the people listed above started getting water for free. I did for several weeks before and after my wife’s trip to California. The results for her justified the cost of the machine in my view. And the results were more dramatic after we hooked up a machine in our own home, and drank the water fresh – as the properties of ionization have a short shelf-life.
      IF you are open-minded enough to read a book by a Ph.D. who never had any connection to this “scam”, you could learn some of the science behind some of the astonishing results.
      I was extremely skeptical when I first heard of this product. My own research has opened my mind.

  5. Kathleen Says:

    This was part of the email I received to invite me to join the Kangen water seminar, being held at a church congregant’s home that my family knows.

    “The class will be put on by Barry & Lauri Tauscher and my family. There is no tuition or charge for the class, and you are welcome to bring any friends/family members who have an interest in health issues and/or learning about Kangen water. Please just RSVP the number of people who will be attending so that we can plan accordingly.

    The most inspiring testimony at this past weekend’s seminar was given by Scarlett V**G**ten. Some of you might already know her — she and her family attend the church that our family is a part of — Household of Faith Community Church. This past fall, Scarlett had a molar pregnancy — meaning a pregnancy that basically develops a rapidly growing cancerous mass instead of the blessing of a baby. Her cancer levels went up to the 1,100,000 level. 40,000 is already bad, so Scarlett’s health was severely compromised. The cancer resulted in her having to have a hysterectomy, as well as ten rounds of chemotherapy. The result of the chemo was that her lungs got so severely damaged that after much prayer and seeking the Lord’s will, she and her husband decided that they would stop the chemo. Instead, her husband decided that she would just drink Kangen water. After doing so for five weeks, her cancer levels went to just below 2 points!

    This of course is not to say that Kangen water will heal everyone of cancer….it is totally the Lord in His grace and mercy who chose to help Scarlett in this manner….and this Source and Cause was the testimony that she shared before the 200 or so seminar attendees. “

    I. am. shocked. That Scarlett’s husband would DECIDE SHE would stop the chemo. I hope her faith in her husband’s decisions will prove, uh, not harmful to her.

    This isn’t over, folks.

  6. Laurel Says:

    I’m not going to waist a lot of time but You’re so Wayyyy off base it isn’t even funny.
    visit my blog if you like and there is a list of resource books that I’ve put up. The Science has been done.
    Every heard of a Dr. Shina? Get the book “The Enzyme Factor” it’s on amazon. Dr. Shina developed the colonosciopy procedure and has treated over 300,000 patients with diet and Kangen Water.
    I stumbled upon a presentation and I was drinking the water at the event, I had NO IDEA what it was all about, but by the time it was over I’d drank 1 quart of water, and I was bouncing off the walls!
    Now, I don’t have an “Health” issues, but I had an auto accident 5 years ago and my short term memory was all but gone, it was bad to say the least. One of the first things I started to notice was that it was back! The brain is 90% WATER.
    I sleep like a baby, dream like I did when I was a child, and I use the 2.5 acid water in my water pick and my teeth and gum’s are pink and squeaky clean! Don’t believe? That’s your choice. BUT don’t you DARE call a 40 year technology with a 35 year old company that was once part of the SONY corp. and a SCAM. A company that will do close to 1 BILLION dollars in 2008 and that has world wide head quarters in Japan, Germany, NewYork, Canada, Chicago, L.A. Hawaii and several other on target a SCAM or a MLM (Multi- Level Marketing) IT”S NOT, and obviously someone didn’t present the product or the compensation to you properly. That’s too bad.
    This water “DOES” change everything, but is certainly will not if you don’t drink it!
    If you’d like a Free copy of a NEW DVD I’d be happy to sent it your way. I’d also be more than willing to open up a private dialogue w/you via e-mail so I can send you whatever information you might need.

    But again, if you don’t know the science, if don’t actually DRINK the water it’s not going to work for you. And here is what I know for sure.

    If you think it’s a scam? That’s what it will be 4 YOU… I’ve usually found that people that are suspicious, are usually suspicious people themselves.
    So, If you think it doesn’t work? Then it won’t work for you. Likewise if you think of evil and bad things into your life you will attract such evil and error.
    So, just like Henry Ford said, “If you think you can or you think you can’t, either way You’re right.”
    And just remember too, that when he first came up with the automobile they thought he was NUTS, Crazy etc. etc. 10 years later they were building roads for him.
    The telegraph worked fine, then along came a telephone. And I remember just 12 years ago, “NO one NEEDED a cell phone did they?” Now your 8 year old kids have them.
    So, you keep drinking your crap bottled water at $9.00 a gallon that is no better than tap and polluting the planet with the plastics. Talk about a SCAM, Damn bottled water that is the same water they use to make the soda pop!
    You’ll LOVE this DVD, it’s 3.5 hours and ought to set anyone straight.

    Let me know if your interested in “The WaterTruth” Thanks, LCD

  7. Kathleen Says:

    Well… that’s YOUR opinion. Thanks for not w-a-s-t-i-n-g a lot of time giving your sales pitch here.

    Have a nice day. 🙂

  8. Laurel Says:

    OH so you can pitch it as a scam, I put up a post to offer you information to try and educate you, and now it’s a sales pitch? NO one buys anything if they don’t trust or understand it.
    Oh, and the reason the company compensates those that care to share this amazing http://www.KangenWaterMagic.com system, is because it frankly takes some educating of the normal thinking.
    Now what would you think if I told you that this water is “Wetter” than your bottled or tap water?

    Now YOU have a Waterful Day! I know I will
    http://www.KangenWaterMagic.biz is blog

    Think Kangen water is a JOKE, http://www.KangenWaterMagic.info

    • Anita Says:

      Thank you LAUREL!! For speaking up and sharing amazing information and EDUCATION. Keep Leading people to the Water… not everyone will drink, but those who are wise enough WILL look into the science behind it and the countless MEDICAL & CLINICAL STUDIES
      ((https://sites.google.com/site/ionwatertruth/alkaline-water-research))
      by teams of highly esteemed doctors. The REASON Enagic has distributors remove medical claims is because the FDA demands there be none made. Altho the FDA itself has certified the Enagic machine (and no other copy-cat machine) as an Anti-Aging device from the ba-jillion amount of anti-oxidants the Kangen water contains. And yes, I am, too a very proud, confident and unmoving BELIEVER of Kangen water because I have seen the miracles happen in my life, in the lives of others and am now seeing the numbers of medical professionals who endorse Kangen water in the USA to be skyrocketing. Anita (anita@body-optimal.com)

      • Kathleen Says:

        I’m simply tired of these marketing claims. And, I feel that you implied that people are “wise” to believe the claims and to drink the hyped-up water. Pride comes before a fall.

        I know one woman who drank Kangen water religiously and marketed it, too. She died last year of stage 4 liver, lung and colon cancer. She was around 50 years old and ate only organic produce and healthy foods.

        Another of my friends always has a bottle of Kangen water in hand and is suffering terrible insomnia, heart problems and many other ailments. How come the water didn’t help them?

        I will probably not allow any more comments on this, because I’ve said everything before in this post.

  9. Kathleen Says:

    I’m educated on MLM scams, thanks.

    Still — that’s YOUR opinion. Maybe you just need to justify your investment.

    I have nothing to sell.

  10. Kathleen Says:

    Oh, and once the perfectly pH balanced water hits your stomach full of hydrochloric acid, how does it stay perfectly pH balanced, hmmm?

    Just look at the information already posted that refutes the scammy claims of Enagic, Kangen and other similar water units.

    • gayle Says:

      Kathleen, have you figured in the chlorine, florine, pesticides, herbicides, etc. and what they do to the stomach and your whole body. I think they might be acidic, do you know anything about that?

  11. mary Says:

    That’s incredible. I’m glad you brought this up. Mary (Civilla).

  12. gavin dickinson Says:

    Alkaline Water and Stomach Acid
    by Sang Whang
    Among the people who question the validity of alkaline water, the biggest question is, “What happens to the alkaline water once it reaches the stomach, which is highly acidic?” People who have some knowledge of the human body, including medical doctors, ask this question. Let me answer that question once and for all to erase any doubts about the health benefits of alkaline water.
    In order to digest food and kill the kinds of bacteria and viruses that come with the food, the inside of our stomach is acidic. The stomach pH value is maintained at around 4. When we eat food and drink water, especially alkaline water, the pH value inside the stomach goes up. When this happens, there is a feedback mechanism in our stomach to detect this and commands the stomach wall to secrete more hydrochloric acid into the stomach to bring the pH value back to 4. So the stomach becomes acidic again. When we drink more alkaline water, more hydrochloric acid is secreted to maintain the stomach pH value. It seems like a losing battle.
    However, when you understand how the stomach wall makes hydrochloric acid, your concerns will disappear. A pathologist friend of mine gave me the following explanation. There is no hydrochloric acid pouch in our body. If there were, it would burn a hole in our body. The cells in our stomach wall must produce it on an instantly-as-needed basis. The ingredients in the stomach cell that make hydrochloric acid (HCl) are carbon dioxide (CO2), water (H2O), and sodium chloride (NaCl) or potassium chloride (KCl). NaCl + H2O + CO2 = HCl + NaHCO3, or
    KCl + H2O + CO2 = HCl + KHCO3
    As we can see, the byproduct of making hydrochloric acid is sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) or potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), which goes into blood stream. These bicarbonates are the alkaline buffers that neutralize excess acids in the blood; they dissolve solid acid wastes into liquid form. As they neutralize the solid acidic wastes, extra carbon dioxide is released, which is discharged through the lungs. As our body gets old, these alkaline buffers get low; this phenomenon is called acidosis. This is a natural occurrence as our body accumulates more acidic waste products. There is, therefore, a relationship between the aging process and the accumulation of acids.
    By looking at the pH value of the stomach alone, it seems that alkaline water never reaches the body. But when you look at the whole body, there is a net gain of alkalinity as we drink alkaline water. Our body cells are slightly alkaline. In order for them to produce acid, they must also produce alkaline, and vice versa; just as a water ionizer cannot produce alkaline water without producing acid water, since tap water is almost neutral.
    When the stomach pH value gets higher than 4, the stomach knows what to do to lower it. However, if the pH value goes below 4, for any reason, the stomach doesn’t know what to do. That’s why we take Alka-Seltzer, which is alkaline, to relieve acidic stomach gas pain. In this case, hydrochloric acid is not produced by the stomach wall, therefore, no alkaline buffer is being added to the blood stream.
    Let me give you another example of a body organ that produces acid in order to produce alkaline. After the food in the stomach is digested, it must come out to the small intestine. The food at this point is so acidic that it will damage the intestine wall. In order to avoid this problem, the pancreas makes alkaline juice (known as pancreatic juice). This juice is sodium bicarbonate, and is mixed with the acidic food coming out of the stomach. From the above formulae, in order to produce bicarbonates, the pancreas must make hydrochloric acid, which goes into our blood stream.
    We experience sleepiness after a big meal (not during the meal or while the food is being digested in the stomach), when the digested food is coming out of the stomach; that’s the time when hydrochloric acid goes into our blood. Hydrochloric acid is the main ingredient in antihistamines and that is what causes drowsiness.
    Alkaline or acid produced by the body must have an equal and opposite acid or alkaline produced by the body; therefore, there is no net gain. However, alkaline supplied from outside the body, like drinking alkaline water, results in a net gain of alkalinity in our body.

  13. gavin dickinson Says:

    I represent IonLife and IonWays, helped start both companies.

    Enagic is selling a machine my boss used to retail for 999 dollars, and I can show you where you can buy it for 1700 in Asia today.

    The water is wonderful, and does create some pretty amazing results for people, but the Enagic business is wacky…

    My two companies have two business models, one wholesale/retail, and one MLM.

    They are both based on providing a good product at a fair price, and many people are making a living selling these machines, whichever model they choose to participate in. Many participate in both, thereby having access to models ranging in price from 595 to 2645 dollars.

    Enagic reps make many claims to try to justify thier pricing, but never back up thier claims with science or facts.

    Fact is, the machine makes the same water as many other well made machines, but is overpriced.

    I was researching Laurie because someone refered to her in an email I got, and stumbled over your blog. I have no desire to sell anyone anything, but I thought my contribution here might help. I am one of the leading experts in this industry in the USA, and will be glad to answer any questions…

    Best regards,
    Gavin Dickinson
    Laguna Niguel
    gavin@ionh2o.biz

  14. gavin dickinson Says:

    An Intelligent Response to Dr.
    Andrew Weil’s Comments on
    Ionized Alkaline Water and pH
    Dr. Andrew Weil states the following:
    “Home water ionizers, which I’ve seen offered for sale on the
    Internet, are just the latest twist in the ongoing effort to promot e
    the notion that alkaline water is somehow protective of your health.
    The underlying idea is that you can prevent disease by balancing
    your body’s pH. …None of these claims are true. Furthermore, your
    body needs absolutely no help in adjusting its pH. Nor mally, the pH
    of blood and most body fluids is near 7, which is close to neutral.
    This is under very tight biological control because all of the chemical
    reactions that maintain life depend on it. … The health claims for
    [electrical] water ionizers and for alkaline water are bogus. Save
    your money.”
    Let’s apply basic common sense here:
    Dr. Weil: “Your body needs absolutely no help in adjusting its pH.
    Normally, the pH of blood and most body fluids is near 7, which is
    close to neutral.”
    It is correct that the blood pH remains fairly constant even if you eat
    only acidic junk-food. However, saliva and urine pH indeed vary. We must
    look at the whole and not a half truth. Dr. Weil’s comments just above
    exclude some basic pH facts. For example, Dr. Weil omits that saliva pH
    can wildly vary from 4.5 pH to 7.5+ pH , a well-documented medical fact
    with health implications for everybody. ( This will be addressed in detail
    below.)
    If you are eating a high acid diet of 20 Cola drinks a day and red meats, y our
    blood will indeed maintain its pH. However, there will be a price to pay in
    added stress to one’s organs. Your body does not technically need help in
    adjusting the pH of the blood. You can eat a high acid or junk -food diet which
    will indeed be harmfu l to your body but your blood pH will remain fairly
    constant. So what! The notion that the body as a whole, including not just
    the blood pH but the urine and saliva pH needs absolutely no help in
    adjusting its pH is inaccurate. And yes, an alkaline diet he lps to balance pH.
    The correct view begins by looking at the big picture. If we eat a lifenegative,
    high acid diet, we add undue stress to the body and lower our
    immunity. Why do that?
    Water is one of our most essential elements. It is part of our dail y dietary
    intake. Water with a high pH and measurable negative ions occurs at only a
    handful of places on earth! In North America, it occurs naturally at Trinity
    Springs in Ketchum, Idaho and nowhere else. It is very rare. Just as alkaline
    vegetables are beneficial to the body, the same holds true for higher pH
    negative ion alkaline water. It is beneficial.
    Yes, the body needs help otherwise it would be okay to live on a high acid
    diet of Colas and hamburgers alone. This is common sense and common
    knowledge. Think about this for yourself.
    Dr. Weil: “The underlying idea is that you can prevent disease by
    balancing your body’s pH. …None of these claims are true.”
    Moderation is important. If you eat a high acid diet, this creates stress in the
    body. Does Dr. Weil or any other health professional claim that diet is really
    irrelevant to your health? Does anyone claim that a high acid diet has
    absolutely no effect on one’s health? Let’s look into this further.
    When you eat acidic junk -food, the body has to work much harder to
    maintain blood pH, is that good for your health? Urine and saliva pH are not
    constants as is blood pH. Yes, diet is important including the water we drink.
    In fact, diet is one of the best avenues of sustaining the health of the bod y
    and preventing disease. Yes, diet obviously helps the body and that includes
    not indulging in an unhealthful high acid diet. Alkaline foods are good for
    you.
    It is fairly common knowledge that a more alkaline diet including green leafy
    vegetables broccoli, products like E3Live and the like are indeed beneficial to
    the body and can effect, for example, saliva PH if not blood pH. If we
    consider the whole body, blood is not the only thing to look at. We must
    expand our focus to look at the big picture and give the body, our temple,
    the foods that best support life including pH balancing and antioxidant foods.
    This is not for the blood pH alone but applies to other indicators too like urine
    and saliva pH. pH strips to measure urine and saliva are avai lable at most
    drug stores. Yes, there is a reason that people use pH strips.
    Let’s focus in on pH. pH strips are everywhere sold for a good reason.
    Healthy blood pH is around 7.4. Healthy spinal fluid pH is around 7.4 and a
    healthy pH saliva is around 7.4. Saliva pH corresponds with extra cellular
    fluid. For one example, the well -known pH test for saliva is used as a sign
    for healthy or deficient ionic calcium. This is pure medical fact.
    A healthy person’s saliva without a deficiency typically ranges from pH 7.1 to
    pH 7.5. When saliva goes to 4.5 pH to 6.5 pH ( Yes, pH indeed varies.),
    this represents a range from a strong to a mild deficiency respectively. It
    turns out that most children are in the 7.5 pH range, very healthy. 50% of
    adults however are in the 6.5 pH range. This reflects a calcium deficiency
    tied to natural aging and to lifestyle defects such as eating and drin king
    unhealthy foods. You can answer for yourself if the body needs help.
    Ionized alkaline water in mammal studies in Japan showed that its ionized
    calcium – which the unit produces from ordinary tap water – was better
    absorbed in the tissues and inc reased bone mass in the tibia bone, one of the
    first places osteoporosis shows up in the body. There have not been human
    studies. However, the mammal study with Wistar rats is a strong indication
    that ionized alkaline water with its ionic calcium could be quite helpful for
    ionic calcium deficiency.
    What we eat and drink makes a big difference. Incidentally, as regards saliva
    pH, terminal cancer patients may have a pH of 4.5. We sincerely do not
    wish to imply that alkaline water of itself is a cancer cure although many
    have greatly benefitted from a raw, alkaline diet. We do wish to point out
    some key facts on how pH can vary and the importance of proper diet
    including what you drink. Diet is critical to all of the body’s regulatory
    systems.
    Both alkaline food and antioxidants are important to our health. This is not
    news. Dr. Weil has likely not contextually considered this carefully or long
    enough. That is understandable. When he elsewhere debunks alkaline water
    as a cancer cure or the like, we inde ed agree with him. If someone claims
    that Vitamin C does not cure Diabetes, which does not mean that Vitamin C
    is thus entirely worthless. That is bad logic. The same goes for the good
    doctor’s comments on ionized alkaline water. Presenting things in the proper
    scientific context is key.
    We shouldn’t be too simplistic in either condemning or affirming the very real
    benefits of antioxidant, alkaline water. A balanced view is better. No, this is
    not the cure for cancer. However, it is part of an overall intelligent systemwide
    approach to sustaining and maintaining health. Ionized alkaline water
    has measurable antioxidant properties. Antioxidants are well known to be
    helpful in neutralizing free radicals which cause organ damage and are linked
    to disease states. Likewise, an alkaline diet is equally well known to be
    beneficial. Ionized alkaline water offers both alkaline and antioxidant
    properties. All this is beneficial to maintaining your health. That’s the whole
    point.

  15. gavin dickinson Says:

    Ray Kurzweil Scientist
    Talks About Alkaline Water
    Ray Kurzweil was inducted in 2002 into the National Inventors Hall of Fame, established by the U.S. Patent Office.
    He received the $500,000 Lemelson-MIT Prize, the nation’s largest award in invention and innovation. He also received the 1999 National Medal of Technology, the nation’s highest honor in technology, from President Clinton in a White House ceremony.
    He has also received scores of other national and international awards, including the 1994 Dickson Prize (Carnegie Mellon University’s top science prize), Engineer of the Year from Design News, Inventor of the Year from MIT, and the Grace Murray Hopper Award from the Association for Computing Machinery. He has received twelve honorary Doctorates and honors from three U.S. presidents.
    He has received seven national and international film awards. Ray’s books include The Age of Intelligent Machines, The Age of Spiritual Machines, and Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever. Four of Ray’s books have been national best sellers and The Age of Spiritual Machines has been translated into 9 languages and was the #1 best selling book on Amazon in science.
    Question: I have read on the Internet that it is not possible to create alkaline or acid water from pure water and that water that is pure enough to drink can’t be split into alkaline and acid components. Is this true?

    Answer: As responsible scientists, we had the same skepticism when we first heard about alkaline water.
    Therefore, the first thing we did was to purchase a water alkalinizer as well as an accurate electronic pH meter. We ran tap water with pH 7.1 from our home faucet into the device and found that the water coming out of the alkaline outlet had a pH of 9.5 (indicating very alkaline), while the water from the acid outlet measured pH 4.5 (indicating very acidic).
    We repeated this experiment with a variety of tap waters obtaining alkaline outputs with a pH ranging from 9.5 to 9.9. It is true that “pure” or distilled water can not be ionized. If you were to try to “split” distilled water, it would not work. Tap or spring water, however, has dissolved minerals in it. It’s the minerals in the water; primarily calcium, potassium and magnesium that allow water to be “split” by an electric current into alkaline, “electron-rich” (i.e., containing negatively charged ions that can engage in chemical reactions to provide electrons to positively charged free radicals) and acid, “electron-deficient” components. Individuals who say it is not possible to split tap or spring water are misinformed.
    One site on the Internet states “Ionized water is nothing more than sales fiction; the term is meaningless to chemists. Most water that is fit for drinking is too unconductive to undergo significant electrolysis.”
    The above statement is easily shown to be incorrect with a simple pH meter and an electrolysis machine. Most tap waters run through the machine produce highly alkaline water as measured by a pH meter.
    Question: Since you advocate drinking alkaline water, why not simply mix something like sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with water and drink that? There are, in fact, alkaline waters sold that are made by mixing water with bicarbonate. Wouldn’t that work as well and be much less expensive than a water alkalinizer?

    Answer: There are more benefits to “alkaline water” than simply the alkalinity or pH. The most important feature of alkaline water produced by a water alkalinizer is its oxidation reduction potential (ORP). Water with a high negative ORP is of particular value in its ability to neutralize oxygen free radicals.

    ORP can also be directly tested using an ORP sensor and meter. We have conducted these experiments as well. We found that water coming directly from the tap had an ORP of +290mV, while the water coming out of the water alkalinizer had a negative ORP. The more negative the ORP of a substance (that is, the higher its negative ORP), the more likely it is to engage in chemical reactions that donate electrons. These electrons are immediately available to engage in reactions that neutralize positively charged free radicals. This is the key benefit of water produced by a water alkalinizer that is not available by simply drinking water than has had some bicarb or other compounds dissolved in it to make it alkaline.

    Although water mixed with bicarbonate is indeed alkaline, it does not have a negative ORP; rather it has a positive ORP, meaning that it is unable to neutralize dangerous oxygen free radicals. Alkaline water produced by running tap water through an electrolysis machine does have a high negative ORP, meaning that it does have the ability to neutralize oxygen free radicals. We have confirmed these ORP measurements through our direct tests.
    Question: OK, why is it important to drink alkaline water with a high negative ORP?

    Answer: All chemical reactions occur with the transfer of electrons. Negatively charged entities are said to be reducing agents, meaning they are relatively electron rich and are able to donate electrons, reducing the charge of the entity with which they react. Relatively electron-poor entities are referred to as oxidizing agents, meaning they tend to pull electrons away. Thus, each substance in our body may act as either an oxidizing or reducing agent.

    However, not just any negatively charged ion will be able to engage in the specific chemical reactions needed to neutralize oxygen free radicals. The HCO3- (bicarbonate) ions in alkaline bicarb water do not have this potential, whereas the OH- and mineral-rich water coming from an electrolysis machine (from tap water) does have this potential. That is implied in the negative value of the “oxidation reduction potential.”

    Free radicals are among the most damaging molecules in the body and are highly unstable molecules that are oxidizing agents and are electron deficient. They are a principal cause of damage and disease in the body. Oxygen free radicals contribute significantly to a broad variety of harmful conditions in the body ranging from life-threatening conditions such as heart disease, stroke and cancer, to less severe conditions such as sunburns, arthritis, cataracts, and many others. Free radicals MUST get electrons from somewhere and will steal them from whatever molecules are around, including normal, healthy tissues.
    Damage to tissues results when free radicals strip these electrons from healthy cells. If the damage goes on unchecked, this will lead to disease. For example, the oxidation of LDL cholesterol particles in arterial walls by free radicals triggers an immune system response that results in atherosclerosis, the principal cause of heart disease. The negative ions in alkaline water from an electrolysis machine are a rich source of electrons that can be donated to these free radicals in the body, neutralizing them and stopping them from damaging healthy tissues. Specifically, these ions have the potential to engage in the chemical reactions necessary to neutralize oxygen free radicals.

    Vitamin C and E, grape seed extract and alpha lipoic acid, for example, are all powerful electron donors. The vegetable-rich diet we recommend is alkaline and helps donate electrons to the body. Alkaline, electron-rich water falls in the same category. It can help with your body’s need for electrons to counteract free radicals.

    Interestingly, we also tested vegetable juice with the ORP meter and found that it also has a high negative ORP, meaning that it is able to neutralize oxygen free radicals. So at least one of the important benefits of eating vegetables can be obtained from drinking the high negative ORP alkaline water from an electrolysis machine.

    Another benefit of drinking alkaline water is that it assists in the absorption of minerals. We know that if the body is not absorbing enough minerals, it will rob minerals from the body’s mineral reserves, chiefly calcium from the bones.

    It is well known that many chronic diseases result in excess acidity of the body (metabolic acidosis). We also know that the body tends to become more acidic due to modern dietary habits and lifestyles and the aging process itself. By drinking high negative ORP alkaline water, you combat metabolic acidosis and improve absorption of nutrients.

    The blood is carefully buffered to keep it in a narrow range between pH 7.35 to 7.45. The body keeps blood pH stable by utilizing alkaline buffers, chiefly bicarbonate, to neutralize acidic liquids (such as colas, which have a pH as low as 2.5) and other acidic products and byproducts. But as the blood stream receives these acidic substances, the alkaline buffers get used up.
    Drinking alkaline water helps reduce the burden on the limited alkaline buffers which are needed for the body’s natural detoxification processes.
    Question: Is there research that actually shows the benefits of drinking alkaline water?

    Answer: A number of studies are summarized below. One study described below suggests that alkaline water encourages “friendly” anaerobic microflora in the human intestinal tract, and discourages “unfriendly” aerobic organisms. The researcher (see Vorobjeva NV below) writes: “Many diseases of the intestine are due to a disturbance in the balance of the microorganisms inhabiting the gut. The treatment of such diseases involves the restoration of the quantity and/or balance of residential microflora in the intestinal tract. It is known that aerobes and anaerobes grow at different oxidation-reduction potentials (ORP). The former require positive E(h) values up to +400 mV. Anaerobes do not grow unless the E(h) value is negative between -300 and -400 mV. In this work, it is suggested that prerequisite for the recovery and maintenance of obligatory anaerobic microflora in the intestinal tract is a negative ORP value of the intestinal milieu. Electrolyzed reducing water with E(h) values between 0 and -300 mV produced in electrolysis devices possesses this property. Drinking such water favors the growth of residential microflora in the gut. A sufficient array of data confirms this idea.”

    Dr. Grossman has also had many of his patients report of health benefits they have experienced from drinking alkaline electron-rich water.

    Question: How can alkaline water with a pH of 9 or 10 be expected to affect the body when the pH of the stomach is 2 or less?
    Answer: It is important to remember that large amounts of hydrochloric acid are present in the stomach primarily when food is there. There is only a small amount of acid in stomach when it is empty, and this can be easily overcome when alkaline electron-rich water is consumed. Therefore, in order to gain maximum benefit, we recommend drinking alkaline water in between meals. Water consumed between meals will very quickly pass through the stomach and the GI tract.
    *********************************************
    A sample of studies on the health benefits of alkaline electron-rich water.
    Huang KC, Yang CC, Lee KT, Chien CT. Reduced hemodialysis-induced oxidative stress in end-stage renal disease patients by electrolyzed reduced water. Kidney Int. 2003 Aug;64(2):704-14.
    *********************************************
    BACKGROUND : Increased oxidative stress in end-stage renal disease (ESRD) patients may oxidize macromolecules and consequently lead to cardiovascular events during chronic hemodialysis. Electrolyzed reduced water (ERW) with reactive oxygen species (ROS) scavenging ability may have a potential effect on reduction of hemodialysis-induced oxidative stress in ESRD patients. METHODS: We developed a chemiluminescence emission spectrum and high-performance liquid chromatography analysis to assess the effect of ERW replacement on plasma ROS (H2O2 and HOCl) scavenging activity and oxidized lipid or protein production in ESRD patients undergoing hemodialysis. Oxidized markers, dityrosine, methylguanidine, and phosphatidylcholine hydroperoxide, and inflammatory markers, interleukin 6 (IL-6), and C-reactive protein (CRP) were determined. RESULTS: Although hemodialysis efficiently removes dityrosine and creatinine, hemodialysis increased oxidative stress, including phosphatidylcholine hydroperoxide, and methylguanidine. Hemodialysis reduced the plasma ROS scavenging activity, as shown by the augmented reference H2O2 and HOCl counts (Rh2o2 and Rhocl, respectively) and decreased antioxidative activity (expressed as total antioxidant status in this study). ERW administration diminished hemodialysis-enhanced Rh2o2 and Rhocl, minimized oxidized and inflammatory markers (CRP and IL-6), and partly restored total antioxidant status during 1-month treatment. CONCLUSION: This study demonstrates that hemodialysis with ERW administration may efficiently increase the H2O2- and HOCl-dependent antioxidant defense and reduce H2O2- and HOCl-induced oxidative stress.
    Shirahata S, Kabayama S, Nakano M, Miura T, Kusumoto K, Gotoh M, Hayashi H, Otsubo K, Morisawa S, Katakura Y. Electrolyzed-reduced water scavenges active oxygen species and protects DNA from oxidative damage. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1997 May 8;234(1):269-74.

    Active oxygen species or free radicals are considered to cause extensive oxidative damage to biological macromolecules, which brings about a variety of diseases as well as aging. The ideal scavenger for active oxygen should be ‘active hydrogen’. ‘Active hydrogen’ can be produced in reduced water near the cathode during electrolysis of water. Reduced water exhibits high pH, low dissolved oxygen (DO), extremely high dissolved molecular hydrogen (DH), and extremely negative redox potential (RP) values. Strongly electrolyzed-reduced water, as well as ascorbic acid, (+)-catechin and tannic acid, completely scavenged O.-2 produced by the hypoxanthine-xanthine oxidase (HX-XOD) system in sodium phosphate buffer (pH 7.0). The superoxide dismutase (SOD)-like activity of reduced water is stable at 4 degrees C for over a month and was not lost even after neutralization, repeated freezing and melting, deflation with sonication, vigorous mixing, boiling, repeated filtration, or closed autoclaving, but was lost by opened autoclaving or by closed autoclaving in the presence of tungsten trioxide which efficiently adsorbs active atomic hydrogen. Water bubbled with hydrogen gas exhibited low DO, extremely high DH and extremely low RP values, as does reduced water, but it has no SOD-like activity. These results suggest that the SOD-like activity of reduced water is not due to the dissolved molecular hydrogen but due to the dissolved atomic hydrogen (active hydrogen). Although SOD accumulated H2O2 when added to the HX-XOD system, reduced water decreased the amount of H2O2 produced by XOD. Reduced water, as well as catalase and ascorbic acid, could directly scavenge H2O2. Reduced water suppresses single-strand breakage of DNA b active oxygen species produced by the Cu(II)-catalyzed oxidation of ascorbic acid in a dose-dependent manner, suggesting that reduced water can scavenge not only O2.- and H2O2, but also 1O2 and .OH.
    Vorobjeva NV. Selective stimulation of the growth of anaerobic microflora in the human intestinal tract by electrolyzed reducing water. Med Hypotheses. 2005;64(3):543-6.
    96-99% of the “friendly” or residential microflora of intestinal tract of humans consists of strict anaerobes and only 1-4% of aerobes. Many diseases of the intestine are due to a disturbance in the balance of the microorganisms inhabiting the gut. The treatment of such diseases involves the restoration of the quantity and/or balance of residential microflora in the intestinal tract. It is known that aerobes and anaerobes grow at different oxidation-reduction potentials (ORP). The former require positive E(h) values up to +400 mV. Anaerobes do not grow unless the E(h) value is negative between -300 and -400 mV. In this work, it is suggested that prerequisite for the recovery and maintenance of obligatory anaerobic microflora in the intestinal tract is a negative ORP value of the intestinal milieu. Electrolyzed reducing water with E(h) values between 0 and -300 mV produced in electrolysis devices possesses this property. Drinking such water favors the growth of residential microflora in the gut. A sufficient array of data confirms this idea. However, most researchers explain the mechanism of its action by an antioxidant properties destined to detox the oxidants in the gut and other host tissues. Evidence is presented in favor of the hypothesis that the primary target for electrolyzed reducing water is the residential microflora in the gut.
    Chen H, Kimura M, Zhu Z, Itokawa Y, Evaluation on ionized calcium as a nutrient. The 11th symposium on Trace Nutrients Research, Japan Trace Nutrients Research Society, p131-138, 1994.
    *********************************************
    Summary: To clarify effect of ionized calcium water for drinking water in rats, 36 Male Wister rats weighing about 50g were randomly divided into 6 groups, and given following diet and drinking water : (1) Ca-sufficient diet, tap-water; (2) Ca-sufficient diet, tap-water;(3) Ca-sufficient diet, calcium lactate added-ionized calcium-water : (4) Ca-deficient diet, calcium lactate added-water ; (5) Ca deficient diet, calcium lactate added-water :(6) Ca-deficient diet, calcium lactate added ionized calcium-water. The diets were given by paired-feeding method 4 weeks and drinking water was ad libitum. The significant change of calcium concentration in the rats were was follows; Ca concentration of plasma, spleen, of plasma, spleen, kidney, testis and tibia in Ca deficient groups (4), (5), (6) were significantly low compared with these in Ca sufficient groups (1),(2),(3) Ca concentration in brain of groups (4),(5),(6) was low compared to these in groups (2), Ca concentration in heart and muscle of group (4) was low compared to Ca deficient groups (1),(2),(3), but these in group (5) drank Ca added-water was recovered and these in group (6) drank ionized-Ca-water was higher than these in any other groups. Ca concentration of liver in groups (4) were significantly lower than that in group (1),(3) and Ca concentration of liver in Ca deficient rats (groups (5),(6)) drank Ca-added-water were high compared to these in group (4). In 24 hours urine discharge of group (2) was high compared with groups (4), (5), (6). These results suggest that ionized Ca in drinking water may be active for intestinal absorption.
    Vormann J, Worlitschek M, Goedecke T, Silver B, Supplementation with alkaline minerals reduces symptoms of patients with chronic low back pain, J Trace Elem. Med. Biol. Vol. 15, pp. 179-183, 2001
    Abstract: The cause of low back pain is heterogeneous, it has been hypothesized that a latent chronic acidosis might contribute to these symptoms. It was tested whether a supplementation with alkaline minerals would influence symptoms in patients with low back pain symptoms. In an open prospective study 82 patients with chronic low back pain received daily 30 g of a lactose based alkaline multimineral supplement (Basica) over a period of 4 weeks in addition to their usual medication. Pain symptoms were quantified with the “Arhus low back pain rating scale” (ARS). Mean ARS dropped highly significant by 49% from 41 to 21 points after 4 weeks supplementation. In 76 out of 82 patients a reduction in ARS was achieved by the supplementation. Total blood buffering capacity was significantly increased from 77.69 ± 6.79 to 80.16 ± 5.24 mmol/L (mean ± SEM, n=82, p < 0.001) and also blood pH rose from 7.456 ± 0.007 to 7.470 ± 0.007 (mean ± SEM, n=75, p < 0.05). Only intracellular magnesium increased by 11% while other intracellular minerals were not significantly changed in sublingual tissue as measured with the EXA-test. Plasma concentrations of potassium, calcium, iron, copper, and zinc were within the normal range and not significantly influenced by the supplementation. Plasma magnesium was slightly reduced after the supplementation (-3%, p < 0.05). The results show that a disturbed acid-base balance may contribute to the symptoms of low back pain. The simple and safe addition of an alkaline multimineral preparate was able to reduce the pain symptoms in these patients with chronic low back pain.

  16. gavin dickinson Says:

    I have lots of peer review studies, white papers, and more info that legitimizes the technology and efficacy of this water, should anyone wish to read up on it.

    blessings to one and all, even enagic reps!

    🙂

    • Diane Says:

      Hi Gavin,

      I’d love to have the information! Thanks

      • gavin dickinson Says:

        email me at gavin@ionh2o.biz, and I will send you reams and reams of info.

        🙂

      • Kathleen Says:

        John, Gayle and Diane ALL have the same email address and IP address. Are they all one person? Are they all working from the same computer? Wow, what a show of strength.

        Hmmmm……

      • Diane Says:

        Why should that bother you Kathleen. It is a famiy business for us.
        Blessings….

      • Kathleen Says:

        Diane, I have issues with people trying to justify their pushiness and exclusivity about their “family businesses”.

        I just wonder why you have targeted me to have your whole family to dissuade me from my opinion.

  17. Kathleen Says:

    Gavin,
    I’m just realizing how much this really is another sales pitch (your very lengthy legitimizing, though I suspect it was “canned”) and I still stand by my understanding of how you sales reps have to promote/market/merchandise your wares.

    The information I’ve posted seems to be a threat to your business. I don’t believe any of the claims about alkalinity in these overpriced water gadgets, and I don’t believe people like Lauri, because she is unbalanced in her views, in my estimation. I’ve met her. Oh, and her own church members have brought up the same concerns about this water MLM scam amongst the congregation(s). So, my understanding is that some people are just more predisposed to believing and buying into these MLM claims than others. Like hypnosis and forms of manipulation.

    • gavin dickinson Says:

      yes, I am in the business of selling alkaline ionized water machines, and you are quite unreasonable in your reaction to the science and technology.

      you can find naysayers about most any alternative health product, and you are welcome to your opinion.

      fact is, these machines have been in use in asia for almost 30 years, they are classified as medical devices, and doctors prescribe this water to people with all sorts of chronic conditions…

      the body is a miracle, this water helps the body function more optimally, especially once over acidification has started to cause disease…

      like I said, my companies use two business models, one standard business model where dealers buy wholesale and sell retail, one mlm where one can recruit other sales people and make residual income off the efforts of the organization you build and support.

      there is nothing wrong with either model, the mlm one is actually designed to sell the product at the same price as the wholesale/retail model.

      I understand your antipathy towards mlm in general, and believe me, I share your distaste for Laurie’s kangen/enagic company, they are doing a great disservice to our industry, and I find most of thier marketing tactics to be unethical and many times flat out dishonest.

      I do give the water away, and will give it to anyone who needs it and cannot afford a machine. my company actually donates machines to people in need, although we do so anonymously and privately so as not to appear as if we are trying to capitalize on it.

      The water is truly different, it is something that does make a diffenence for many people that they can feel.

      I would NEVER claim it cures anything. the body is a remarkable mechanism though, and when given the proper nutrients, can do some miraculous things on its own.

      your information is in no way a threat to my business, I am quite successful and enjoying the new career path I found myself on three years ago, I have become something of an expert, and have helped create a thriving, ethical, caring business that makes a difference for many people.

      every business is in the business of selling, something.

      the info I posted earlier is all legitimate, and in response to your “snake oil” posts.

      again, my company sells machines from 595 to 2645, and they are quality products that are in more and more demand as time goes on.

      many people are making a little extra money every month by selling them too… sorry if MLM is something that you think is bad and wrong, but my focus is not on selling through either of my business models MLM and traditional wholesale/retail), but rather on having people drink the water so they can have their own experience.

      if they want a machine, I will be glad to sell them one, if they want the water, I give it away for free.

      I am proud of my companies, have a great day!

      • Kathleen Says:

        “I understand your antipathy towards mlm in general, and believe me, I share your distaste for Laurie’s kangen/enagic company, they are doing a great disservice to our industry, and I find most of thier marketing tactics to be unethical and many times flat out dishonest.”

        I can fully appreciate the distaste for their tactics, even their writing “testimonies” of people going off of insulin and other meds. What I’d like to know, is, how in the world can Kangen water reconstruct new insulin-making cells to make a diabetic not need insulin any longer? Any “science” that can tell us that? That is like taking a person off of life support. Again, I say, Criminal. For her and others to promote that as a marketing tool, or to suggest that some kind of unique properties the water supposedly has, that a diabetic can control his blood sugars, is being sly. Of course, if you fill a diabetic with water instead of carb-laden drinks or other foods, their blood sugars will be better controlled and improve significantly. The fact that they drink water, any water, will benefit them and improve their health.

        Okay. Another thing that jumped out at me about your statement is that I have met Laurie, spoken with her and know a good deal about her. She is also a “professing Christian”. I don’t know if she is, and if she is being unethical and dishonest, then, it’s a terrible representation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Did you make this statement based on what I described and the link I posted? Or is it because you have met her and have witnessed this yourself? My concern is that she is being deceptive in her claims and others in her circle of influence are being deceived (which would include people I know) in order for her to build her business.

        The people she markets to are also people that are more predisposed to naturopathic medicine, home births, a mis-trust of conventional disease management and treatment, because they often read the same types of books and follow the same organic type of teachers and lifestyles, which has a whole worldview in and of itself.

    • gavin dickinson Says:

      Hi Kathleen,
      I do not know Laurie personally, but I have been responsible for keeping track of claims made by enagic reps about the quality of our product.

      thier flagship machine is not a bad machine, but it is priced artificially high to support their pay plan.

      2700 dollars gets paid out when someone buys one. we feel this is obscene, and bad for our industry.

      they attack the quality of our product in thier attempt to justify thier price, adn Laurie has created a document that covers a whole bunch of ground, all of it false and unproven.

      they even claim that our machines’ electrodes leach titanium into the water, adn poison people…

      it is infuriating, and ludicrous, and we actually make a machine that is more efficient, more modern, and makes more alteration to the water for half the price of theirs…

      I spend a lot of time defending our comany against lies that laurie propagates and perpetrates.

      that is why I stumbled on your blog, I was looking for info on her.

      the thing about diabetes, I have heard it helps some diabetics stabilize their blood sugar adn they sometimes need less insulin. i have never heard of someone going off entirely, nor would our company publish info like that, it is dangerous and irresponsible to do so.

      I have heard of people with early onset diabetes getting told later they don’t have diabetes after getting on the water, but I think that is different.

      the water truly does have some ability to help the body heal itself, it causes results for people with migraines, allergies, asthma, gout, acid reflux, arthritis, and the list goes on and on, I ahve been involved in the industry for three years and know of many examples of what I speak to here… including myself, with arthritis… just had the beginnings of it on one hand, adn within a week of drinking the water, the pain went away, and it has never come back in three years… big knot on that joint, but no pain, and totally flexible…

      gotta go to sleep, long night, bye!

    • gavin dickinson Says:

      oh, and yes, itmuch of what I posted is “canned”, Kathleen, because your criticism is something we deal with ongoingly, referring to andrew weil, etc. andrew has never tried the water, btw, his opinion is based on his “research”, and he refuses to try the water for himself.

      many people will be critical of “new” technology… many people are critical of issues of faith too, I might add. does this mean your faith is wrong? I know and you know the answer to this one.

      I have written many emails that I keep in draft form to address issues that arise repetitively.

      my company has a team of customer service people that I trained, there are many many issues that come up repeatedly, hence the “canned” response.

      I am NOT trying to sell you anything, but I will also not lay down and be lumped in with enagic, simply because my company sells the same kind of machine. I find their motives and methods reprehensible, and will continue to say so till they quit attacking the quality of my product and the integrity of my company.

      to to http://www.thewatertruth.com sometime, and see how enagic portrays their competitors… they have a picture of a greasy used car salseman with a diamond pinkie ring and a cigar… they demonize their competitors… again, totally reprehensible, no excuse for this kind of business behavior, no ethics or integrity whatsoever in this approach.

      note, I am only pointing out their objectionable behavior, I will say nothing bad about their machine, it is a decent machine, just not worth what they claim.

      the technology is valid, the water does help people, and I am proud of what I do and who I represent! I would NEVER represent enagic.

      kind regards,

      gavin dickinson

    • Diane Says:

      Kathlen, I’m sorry you have been taken and hurt by other experiences. We all have. We are people – and people should care about each other. Especially Christians.
      I do have one question for you – Have you, personally, tried the water? Having tried it myself, it IS something to be experienced. It really isn’t like other water. It is smooth and not bitter. One of those things that you don’t know about until you try it, like appreciating a room that has been cleaned up! You may not remember what bad shape it was in before!! We tend to forget!
      I invite you to try the water, especially if you have a reason like a headache or something. My Mother had a bad staph infection on her leg and we treated it with the correct level of water acidic water externally and alkaline water internally and the staph is gone! STAPH!!!!
      I have worked in the health food industry [like Dr. Weil] for over 12 years and I know we can not make claims like ‘something will heal you’ – but we can talk about our own experience, and I was and still am administiring my Mothers ‘treatment’. I call it treatment because she has decided to treat it this way. As opposed to the antibiotics the AMA was pumping into her. This is her 2nd bout with staph in the last 10 years. This time the antibiotics they gave her left her with thrush and candida, which isn’t any help to the MS that she has had since she was 16.
      I see this just as I see how I used to work at the health food stores. This is education – not sales. I’m not a saesperson. I have friends who are in this business and they give away water; not sell machines. Yes that is what happens – but it is because of the results, not because they are pushing something. Because the results are there, and I’ve experienced it.

      My sister and I both had brain tumors. I lived and my sister now lives in Heaven. People have said to me “You die from brain tumor!!!” We were diagnosed within 3 months of each other in 1985, and by the way neither were cancerous. My point in sharing that with you is that – Ten thousand words will not stand up against an experience, especialy when that experience is your own. Again, I invite you to try the water….

      Some people choose to remain sick because getting well means change. Some, as odd as it sounds to me, don’t want to get well. And some people just want to hear themselves talk.

      As for the money, I’d much rather share my money with my friends, and have someone I can go to and find out more – who cares and to be successful with, than I would a department store or a Wal-Mart or somewhere else that uses the profits for the warehouse, the truckdrivers, the airlines, the people I don’t know and never will. Who don’t care about me at all, except that i buy from them.

      And as for JESUS, he had 3 very, very close to HIM, 12 (including those 3) very close to HIM, 70 not as close, and 144; 500; 5000 and the numbers continue to multiply today…. Jesus was the origional and best ever multi-level marketer!! 😉 [and by the way, I’ve been to two Bible Colleges and been actively walking with the LORD for over 17 years – yes, I’m still a baby in my Christianity – but I do know a thing or two. Even though, the more we learn about the LORD, just whetts our appitite and we realize AGAIN how much we don’t know about HIM!! And how much HE loves us!!]

      And I want to Thank You Kathleen for a place to share all this. You have extended a wonderful invitation, and should not be disapointed when people accept your invitation.

      God Bless you.

      I will be ordering my Enagic machine in the next day, if not today. And I am thrilled about it! There is no doubt this is from the LORD for me and my family!! I do hear HIS vioce and I do know how to recognize HIM!! And I am loving being in business with Christians who care and love each other and are helping others heal and feel better and live with a quality of life that we haven’t seen in a LONG LONG time!! AND WE THANK GOD DAILY FOR IT!

      And thank you again for asking.

      • Kathleen Says:

        Diane, you said:
        “It really isn’t like other water. It is smooth and not bitter.”

        So was my well water in comparison to the city water I had been used to.

        Also, the same results when I tried bottled water compared to city tap water.

        About results and the “ministry” aspect of it: I know a man from one of the church congregations I’ve spoke of and he recently suffered some debilitating medical crises. Did anyone give him this super water to drink to cure him of his illness, that cost him thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical expenses, while he is out of work? I don’t know, but he is still suffering terribly and unable to function at times. Now, wouldn’t that be a wonderful testimony to the great healing powers of this water? Or of the terrific help of those who’ve bought into this expensive MLM?

        I can’t answer the question, but it sure does raise more questions in my mind.

        Diane, then you said:
        “My sister and I both had brain tumors. I lived and my sister now lives in Heaven. People have said to me “You die from brain tumor!!!” We were diagnosed within 3 months of each other in 1985, and by the way neither were cancerous. My point in sharing that with you is that – Ten thousand words will not stand up against an experience, especialy when that experience is your own. Again, I invite you to try the water….”

        What are you trying to convey here? That in 1985 you drank Kangen water and it cured your brain tumor? Did your sister also try the Kangen water and it didn’t cure her? Did she not try the Enagic/Kangen water and so, therefore, she passed away? I’m trying to follow what you are saying, in order to get an accurate picture of HOW the water works for people. Was Kangen/Enagic around in 1985?

        You said:
        “Some people choose to remain sick because getting well means change. Some, as odd as it sounds to me, don’t want to get well. And some people just want to hear themselves talk.”

        Well, that is your opinion, and assuming you don’t hold a medical degree for each of the ailments people have suffered, it should be also regarded as opinion.

        My positive approach to drinking ionized water will NEVER cure the insulin-dependent diabetes I have had since I was a child. The minute those claims are made, as some have alluded to who sell your product, it borders on criminal claims.

        You said, and this sounds exclusive against legitimate businesses:
        “As for the money, I’d much rather share my money with my friends, and have someone I can go to and find out more – who cares and to be successful with, than I would a department store or a Wal-Mart or somewhere else that uses the profits for the warehouse, the truckdrivers, the airlines, the people I don’t know and never will. Who don’t care about me at all, except that i buy from them.”

        Well, I can guarantee that at least some of those people care just as much about their families and their health as people who work for themselves (Kangen/Enagic — which is just a corporation in Japan that you don’t probably personally know people at the top either). Those people are work-a-day people and they are valuable people, too, even if many in the “alternative healing” and “organic”, etc., fields seem to be condescending towards them.

        Okay, this is where you cross the line:
        “Jesus was the origional and best ever multi-level marketer!! “

        He is God, and that was NEVER (ML marketer) one of His descriptions. You insert your own bias into His mission in the Bible.

        How can you not see what I wrote about Jesus in my post? How can you even compare what Enagic does to fear-monger people into believing that they, too, can have (near) eternal health with such an over-priced, highly questionable (especially now!) piece of equipment? That in 10 years, would it even have replacement parts available for such a ridiculously large investment!?

        Well, I hope you do gain something from your investment.

  18. Sandra Wilkes Says:

    Thanks for the info!

  19. Kathleen Says:

    I guess the person/people who put up that blog that I captured a cache of removed the post that had a person’s comments and other Household of Faith Community Church congregants of the Portland, Oregon area. Well, one of the elders’ family members of one of the congregations contacted me to tell me that they TOO had a problem with the marketeering amongst the believers in the congregations. One of the congregations that Laurie Tauscher and her family attends (she’s a distributor, or sales rep, recruiting HOFCC members to buy their $1,200, $1,500, or $4,000 units from her and others involved in this marketeering) has at least one person who doesn’t agree with their “focus” in that congregation.

    As far as those who buy into this MLM scheme:
    It must feel terrible after you’ve committed your family to a huge debt with the benefits of telling everyone else how their water isn’t as pure as yours is. You have to keep convincing yourself of that. It’s your liberty, I understand, but just how “convincing” were the distributors’ sales pitches?

    Yes, Sono had comments to the wonder cures of this water, diabetics went off their meds, etc. Lauri T. and others I could totally identify by details shared, gave some kind of endorsement of this MLM, that marketed primarily through word-of-mouth and email lists, which is how I found out about it. I was sent an invitation to join one of these seminars.

    At first, I knew nothing of this water, except that one of the women of the church who had bought a unit, told me it was very expensive. This was a woman whose family participates in the same gleaning organization as I do. That’s why I wonder if there is an element of scare tactics and manipulation that goes on because a family that can’t seem to make ends meet to keep the pantry full, should really reconsider shelling out such money that could be allocated to food, and using it instead to buy a fancy water filter. That has a huge mark-up and generous profit for the seller. But these are friends. Friends in church wouldn’t take advantage of each other, right?

    Not Gregg Harris’ church, right? He didn’t use his congregants on more than one occasion to prop up and promote his family’s own “businestry”, right? Volunteers to run his conferences, so his sons could earn money to continue to go to school at a private college back east, while Gregg teaches to his congregants and other listeners that we really don’t need colleges, public education, or hospitals, or the military, or modern electronic entertainment, many of which he and his family have benefitted from, and which he states are just inventions of the past 100 years or so. The home offers all the higher learning and apprenticeship you need for your children and family, or so he states here: http://www.hopeingod.org/Men.aspx

    and also here, when he preached essentially the same message to the Gresham, Oregon Household of Faith Community Church service in 2007:
    http://odeo.com/episodes/16986013-Where-Godly-Character-Comes-From

    I just wanted to give a background of the kind of teaching that goes on in the church(es) that have been very influenced by these types of teachers.

  20. Jim Turnage Says:

    Thanks for posting this blog! My in-laws recently got sucked into this and this was very helpful in my research on these products. Now I’m just praying on how to talk to them about this.

  21. Kathleen Says:

    You’re welcome, Jim. I just wish that more of the people in the church congregations that I’m aware of would have taken a closer look at this MLM before investing their money and efforts into it, and then turn it around to claim they are doing it for ministry. May God give you the words and grace to approach them with the information.

  22. gavin dickinson Says:

    enagic is definitely overpricing their machine…

    if you ever have an enagic rep start making claims that seem to justify thier price, ask them for proof.

    they never have any.

    because everything they say, they have been taught to say, and they have no science, studies or facts to back it up.

    even lauri tauscher’s “report” is a sham, she makes all sorts of claims and assertions, and cannot back up a single one.

    the water ionizer technology is a good one, the water truly does make a difference for lots and lots of people.

    and, enagic is an embarrassment to the industry.

    you can buy water ionizers that are not sold through mlm’s. and, our mlm has fair pricing. our traditional business model (wholesale/retail) has machines priced fairly too.

    there are three companies in the business to watch out for, Life Ionizers, Tyent, and Enagic. these companies all use deceit and trickery to sell, and are totally profit driven entities. while my companies are run for profit, there is a committment to integrity, service and

    There are a couple of other companies that are so new you should not risk buying from , simply because they may not be here in a year to supply you with replacement filters or parts should you need them.

    there are several reputable companies besides mine that you can buy from, should you wish.

    the technology has been in use in asia for 30 years, it does make a difference, and more and more people in the USA are finding out for themselves that this is true.

    best regards,

    gavin dickinson
    949.273.4429

    • Kathleen Says:

      The more I hear about Lauri T., the more I think she should be reported on by people who know what she’s up to. Her elders at Household of Faith community church in Milwaukie or Gresham, Oregon, should be notified about how she is using congregants for her own gain, and in a deceptive way, even if she is somehow “ignorant” of the claims she’s making.

      • gavin dickinson Says:

        the entire organization of enagic is fueled by people like this, they are fueled, in my opinion, by greed, not concern for the welfare of others. I do not know Laurie, again, but I have read her “report”, and it is full of claims and statements that are untrue and totally without any science or studies to substantiate.

        their claims that their machine is better, thus worth twice the price, are totally bogus.

        it is not a bad machine, but you can get as good or better for half the price from other companies.

  23. gavin dickinson Says:

    oops, integrity, service, and respect towards all people. our company is run by people who truly care, and operate accordingly.

    forgot to finish that sentence!

    thanks,

    gavin

  24. gavin dickinson Says:

    no Kathleen, I am not trying to sell you anything, I am responding to your comments. I think your opinion about the water and the machines is tainted by your justifiable reaction to enagic, and I am trying to distinguish this.

    • Kathleen Says:

      Gavin, my recent comment about asking whether “Gayle” was trying to sell me something was pointed at Gayle in the above comment.

      I am glad, though, that you have brought of the very same concerns with the persuasion tactics used by those that are very unbalanced toward people who are dealing with sickness, or inner fears. This is reprehensible behavior, and really does speak to greed.

      This is the kind of scam I’m seeing weekly with people I know personally. Believe me, I’ve become unpopular among people because I’ve taken a stand against the tactics and COST of enagic machines. All I did was point out the discussions on these other sites discussing the fear-tactics and cost and flaky claims, and I was confronted defensively by a representative AT CHURCH, on EASTER for my email response to these claims.

      So, yeah, I think this system of water selling (at least with the Enagic or Kangen reps) has affected their conscience or something.

      • gavin dickinson Says:

        sorry, thought you were speaking to me.

        thanks for getting the difference between enagic and reputable companies in the business.

        reputable companies do not attack the integrity and quality of their competitor’s products.

        reputable companies don’t allow thier reps to create phony reports and spread disinformation about their competitors.

        reputable companies make money honestly.

        enagic is not reputable in any way, shape or form, in my opinion.

        some of the enagic reps are decent and honest people, but they have bought into the lies they are being trained to repeat by their leaders.

        many enagic reps, when they realize what i am saying is true, leave the company in digust.

        justifiably so.

  25. Kathleen Says:

    I also appreciate you distinguishing yourself from the Enagic representatives. They just seem so willing to push and push to convince someone, that I really doubt they actually believe the claims themselves.

    • gavin dickinson Says:

      funny, Kathleen, I just covered this… again, a LOT of enagic reps are fine upstanding people…

      the company culture is corrupt to the top tho, my company has documented dozens of actionable offenses (meaning we could sue the pants off them), and sent lists of offenses and the names of the people responsible for them to their corp hdqrts…

      enagic corp just doesn’t care there. they let their reps say and do anything to make their sales.

      it is, again, reprehensible.

  26. An article on Weston A. Price: priceless « Kate’s Chosen Says:

    […] goes into their bodies (as well as some weird mechanically manipulated “pure” water; see my post about Kangen MLM — what a contrast in thoughts!) than they do about the poor or struggling families just […]

  27. Kathleen Says:

    More ridiculous and dangerous claims about Type 1 diabetics getting off of their insulin because of Kangen water:

    http://www.phwaterforhealth.com/truestories.htm

    [I wonder if they’ll remove their claim now, or if they’ll keep it up]

    “My name is Franklin. When I was 10, I was diagnosed with Juvenile,
    Type 1 Diabetes (insulin dependant). I’ve been drinking Kangen™
    water for 5 weeks and my blood sugars are more stable in the 80 to 140 range.

    My parents listened to a radio talk show featuring Dr. Dave Carpenter who had a patient with Type 1 diabetes. His patient was able to get completely off insulin after drinking Kangen™ water for 2 years.

    His Alpha (eyelet) cells regenerated and produced insulin again when his pH became more alkaline with Kangen™ water. I know this can happen in my body, too.

    I also have Aspergers Syndrome (high functioning Autism), which makes it hard for me to stay focused and follow instructions. My teachers and parents can’t believe the radical improvement in my focus and attention span since drinking Kangen™ water. I didn’t like drinking water before, but I like Kangen™ water. It tastes good!”
    ———–

    Anther person’s slanted claim:

    The truth is that Etsuko learned about Kangen water three years before this incident and sold Kangen water as a business. She even told her husband about it. But, he just said “if this water could cure what I have, we wouldn’t need doctors.” Fortunately, Yoshito finally listened to his wife.
    Caption: Yoshito Tanaka now. He conquered diabetes with Kangen water.
    — read the rest here: http://www.miracleh2o.com/w_testimonial.htm
    ———

    A parent who wants to take their son off of the “awful” medication of insulin, by replacing it with ….. KANGEN WATER! Read here:

    http://www.inspire.com/groups/advanced-breast-cancer/discussion/alkaline-or-die/

    “Katrin

    * By Katrin
    * Posted May 13, 2009 at 2:36 pm
    * Report post

    Well, to be honest with you, maybe its seemed like one, but this water really works. I heard a lot of stories about people getting amazing results and I’ll tell you more. My 7yrs old son has diabetes since 2005. He is Insulin dependant. He started to drink it couple of months ago and we already see results. Now i’m lowering his insulin dosage, because his blood sugar slowly stabilizing. And I really hope that I will take him off that awful medication.

    Maybe its sounds unbelievable, but there are a lot of people out there, with different types of problems and disease, who had great results after constantly drinking this water.
    That’s why I wanted to share that with you.”

    ——–

    Some of the testimonials are placed on many different websites advertising this Kangen water and so I think it must be hype to sell an expensive machine.

    It still really ticks me off that in my original post the link to the “testimony” of the 11 year old boy being taken off his insulin was removed by that other Kangen website. It just shows how deceptive that company and some of its reps are.

  28. Brenda Karl Says:

    Hi Kathleen,

    I talked with you a very long time ago and you directed me to the SGM survivors website.

    I just came across this information you were posting about diabetes. I know of a study being done by a Dr. Bevaqua (sp?) She is in Arizona. Her website is Wish4life. Apparently, she has had much success with many cancer patients and is in the middle of a study to prove that diabetes can be reversed and the pancreas rebuilt. The study cannot be published for 5 years to prove that the patients are not in remission and she’s been involved in this study for three years…I think. Anyway, I agree that most of the things we see like you have mentioned here are bogus, but I think her studies are proving true. They are pure science and will not be published in medical journals until they are proven…might be worth checking out. I did find out that she uses Shaklee products…so I now use them too. I think she gives a 10 min consultation at no cost. I’d love to hear what you find out should you choose to contact her. I also wouldn’t mind hearing how you are doing since it has probably been a year since I spoke with you about you leaving your SGM FIC situation. If your blog is any indication, it looks like healing is happening. 🙂

  29. Kathleen Says:

    Hi Brenda,

    Reading the sgm survivors website helped me to see the dynamics of manipulative teachings and behaviors that I’ve experienced in my own church settings. That’s been a very helpful website in understanding how to deal with and/or avoid the kinds of abusive tactics used by people who take Scriptures out of context.

    I’m going to look at the Wish4life website now, thanks! I’ve never heard of anything like this, so I’m interested in what has been developed.

    Much has happened since I left hofcc in Gresham. The church had a complete split, the original elders and their families left, and Gregg Harris was removed by the remaining elders — only for a brief period of months — from his elder status. Effective this week, the elders who remained at hofcc reinstated him. He has been receiving some kind of “accountability” with C.J. Mahaney (so far removed from the situation; that is so weird) for his “humility”. The Gresham church went from a congregation of maybe 500 people (including children) to just a handful of families. They are probably going to lose the Seventh Day Adventist building they’re renting because of its cost. They’ve already lost the use of their kitchen for the shared meal afterwards, which was part of the “family integration” dynamic.

    So, my family joined the new missional church gathering that the elders who had had enough started. I’m quite cautious because of some of the leftover theologies that can be present in some who decide to “lead” (I have major issues with the whole hierarchal structure of church these days), but encouraged that they are doing church differently than hofcc does it. I had been out of hofcc for over a year, at home studying my Bible, and then returned to a sister hofcc congregation during the Spring, only to find the church had gone through a huge blowup at the central Gregg Harris’ Gresham church, and many people had left, and Gregg was removed from elder. No sooner had the Harris family had returned from their Rebelution tour was Gregg reinstated as elder, with a “reduced” salary, of course.

    This was after he had said many, many things that sent people out the doors, like, he “should have picked different elders” when choosing them for his team. And, when confronted by his arrogance he told people, “why don’t you just leave?” And when the congregation asked him why his family didn’t “practice hospitality” in his home with other families there (a reform of hofcc he developed that defines the way families interact with each other there) he responded that was “because our family is private.” This shocked several families there; ones who have helped his family with conferences and other endeavors for their family, and then they basically told their congregation they weren’t good enough to fellowship in their home with them. I spoke with 2 families that left because of this. And this happened AFTER his supposed time of “repentance”. These were the types of attitudes and teachings that I was blogging about over a year ago when I left in https://kateschosen.wordpress.com/exclusivity-condescension-preferential-teachings-and-why-i-disagree-strongly-with-these-teachings/

    There’s been progress in my healing, but as these things all started to unfold over the last few months it just reopened old wounds. Especially since I’ve seen so many other people getting the same treatment and worse than what I experienced. I made myself vulnerable to the Harris family briefly as I saw them go through this process of humiliation in the beginning, but now am seeing that there really hasn’t been much change, and the teachers who’ve stayed behind are still leading the congregations in some really legalistic teachings.

    I’m looking forward to reading the information on Wish4life you sent, Brenda. Thanks.

  30. Kathleen Says:

    Maureenz,

    I removed your comment. I haven’t had to do that to a commenter in years (except for 1 spam comment that slipped in months ago), but I had to remove your comment because you weren’t even trying to communicate. All you left was your free advertising for that Kangen swill you believe to have super healing qualities.

    I won’t let my blog become some desperate salesperson’s avenue for free advertisement. Especially for that highly overpriced water that managed to turn a church into another avenue for marketing more health fear tactics.

  31. lynn elopre Says:

    Please remove me on your website. I never authorized anyone to include or mention my name in any MLM promos and/or testimonies. Thanks

  32. Kathleen Says:

    Lynn, I wasn’t promoting the MLM that was quoted. If you’re referring to the quote here, this is the kind of health claim that I’m saying is dangerous, as I know first-hand about insulin and diabetes:

    “**“…My father’s blood pressure went down. His
    blood sugar normalized and he did not need
    insulin shots anymore after three weeks of
    drinking the Kangen Water. The same thing with
    my mom. They also lost weight. So they believe
    in alkaline water..” -**** *****, Bensenville, Illinois”

    When I investigated all the miracle health claims Kangen reps were claiming, I found these and other quotes on various sites.

  33. Marcelino Polintan Says:

    Thank you very much for the post!
    Many guys usually wonder why they cannot get rid of fat or have a nice looking. The point is people keep searching for a secret method that gives them what they really want immediately meanwhile all they should do is reading informative posts like this and do the exercises.

  34. chris Says:

    if anyone is looking in to alternative exercise besides western medical, such as acupuncture, yoga, asian traditional methods of healing the incurables. I recently found out about this device invented bby this chinese guy. His name is alex chiu. a lot of people already know or heard about him. you can check them out at
    alex-chiu.com
    This method is manly focus on un clogging the natural chi or qi path through out your body, if you have done yoga you should know what i’m talking about. anyways it will naturally boost up you immune system which will then affect your body to heal on its own with out any medical precedure or medicine. Everyone who has disease or care about their heath should definitely check it out. there nothing to loose you know.

  35. Kathleen Says:

    Chris,
    Thanks for stopping by my blog. The funny thing is that if you had read anything I had written, you wouldn’t have bothered to try to sell your ideas here.

    Thanks for trying. Insulin-dependent diabetes has only been shown to be treated with …… INSULIN. The only cure that can banish diabetes forever is in the authority and power of JESUS’ NAME.

    God is the only one Who brings total and everlasting healing and life through the Lord Jesus Christ.

  36. gavin dickinson Says:

    The water from water ionizers does have remarkable affects on a variety of chronic conditions, the problem here is the Kangen folks all paid 4K for their machines, and are very cult like in their zeal to sell their machines… There is 2300-2799 bucks (?) paid out to 6 or 7 people when one is sold, the top of the pyramid guy gets 1700.
    Then, they will look you in the eye and say it is worth twice or more than twice the cost of other water ionizers on the market, and go on to list a myriad of reasons, NONE of which they back up with any facts… As a professional in the industry, I have to say that although they are very effective at marketing and selling their machine, they are an embarrassment to the industry and are without a doubt the most dishonest bunch of folks I have ever encountered in a sales organization. Their machine makes water that makes a difference just like mine does, they believe that theirs makes better water somehow, and I have asked dozens of them over the year to show me exactly what is better. Our company is the ONLY company that has done independent side by side testing of various machines, and we did this to refute their number one claim, that their big electrodes and higher power machines make better water. It simply is not true, it is kind of like a cell phone salesman saying his motorola brick phone (remember those?) is better than the apple iPhone because it is heavier, and the brick makes better phone calls… I know you don’t believe an ANY water ionizer here, and you are more than welcome to believe anything you want. I own 12 demo units that I send to potential clients all over the US, and rarely do they fail to cause a sale, because the water does have a noticeable impact on most chronic conditions… especially acid reflux, type two diabetes, migraines, sore joints, arthritis, etc etc.

    I will finish here with a quote from someone I have used a lot in my life: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
    –HERBERT SPENCER

    I never try to convince anyone of anything, and I offer people the experience of drinking the water for free, with no obligation to buy. Rarely do they not buy.
    Blessings,
    Gavin Dickinson

    • gavin dickinson Says:

      2300 to 2700, I meant to say, and the question mark means I am not exactly sure on the number, I know it is at LEAST 2300, and I also know one person gets 1700, this creates a very greed driven sales force, willing to forgo ethical considerations in pursuit of the big bucks… attracts some very aggressive sales type people, the money can be huge.
      our company is heart centered and sells the same machines in our retail program as our MLM program. at the same price, because we are not greed driven. you can make a lot of money with us, but nobody EVER makes 1700 off a machine sale… it is obscene to do so in my opinion… my biggest complaint with the kangen folk is they have no facts or science to back up their claims, and they are incredibly derogatory towards our brand, saying all sorts of terrible and untrue things. they NEVER prove one claim they make, ask them for proof, and watch them side step… If they can prove to me that their machine is superior to mine, I will buy one, and I have made this offer a hundred times in the last five years… have not bought one yet… and god bless each and every one of them, most of them truly believe what they have been taught to say… the problem is they are not making sure what they say is true, which surprises me… I would NEVER make claims as a salesman I cannot back up.

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